This is an extreme example,but if a high iq high educated person from a stable family thinks most people think/act like them,you can imagine that to improve a poor person's life you need to give them 30k,thinking they will invest some if it on SandP500,get a bio-engineering deegree with a loan and escape the rat race,when in reality most low SES people would spend those money for an impressionable phone/car,fake hair-nails and 1st seats at nba,and treating their equally low SES friends free booze and alchohol.The two options available as a solution i see is either we need better elites at governing positions,and need to equip them with multiple perspectives,or we need more diversity in governance,where people of multiple different backgrounds are represented.Also you didn't specify how gender would play a role into the Mandate of National Service,and i hope you just forgot and weren't trying to dodge bullets:):)
I agree completely. Now in my sixties, I grew up when we had mandatory military service in Sweden. That was the first time I came into close contact with people of all walks of life, and it was - and still is - very beneficial. We lived together for 15 months, and formed bonds as well as saw other perspectives that made a huge impression.
Interesting data and insightful commentary, James. I would not that your analysis is quite consistent with the findings of Robert Putnam in Bowling Alone and his more recent work. In a recent interview, he commented that at the turn of the twentieth century, reformers recognized the growing alienation of youth and created many mentored youth groups such as the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and others in order to build a more cohesive society. That seems to have worked for a time.
I have long felt that the nation needs a public service requirement such as you advocate, exactly because of its potential for supporting social cohesion and the enrichment of lives through diverse interaction. Diversity is a core element in both biological and social evolution. I know from personal experience in the 1950s that the Boy Scouts became an asset for me the rest of my life. Such programs (not mandatory of course) have faded in more recent decades.
Unfortunately, the culture resists any 'mandate' that is mandatory--as evidenced by the irrational resistance to COVID vaccines. One important research topic might focus on how a paid mandatory youth public service program could be implemented.
I do think the "paid" component would get rid of some resistance...but not all...The key is offer substantial variance on the kinds of service (consumers love choice!). If you remove a mandate and keep the pay, though, it just becomes the CCC from the 1930s ...a form of federally subsidized employment...the elite will not need to participate and won't be forced into humbling themselves...You need high trust in the federal government to mandate anything and we are far from that...still, we badly need a national rite of passage...
why would an LDS person complain about this? I'm a "retired Mormon" (Raise in the faith, seminary & BYU graduate, RM, and kicked out of my congregation for not being married by 30 years old so I have since left....and that's a whole other conversation.) I served my church for 18 months when I was 21 years old. Service is part of any church person's DNA. I think mandatory service as a gap year before college or a trade school would be a great idea!
I would have disagreed with this years ago but given the chasm in class interactions and the race and gender hysteria that has ensued by people with too much time and comfort on their hands, mandatory service would assist class integration, discipline and hopefully mutual respect.
This is not possible considering the amount of violence in our society, particularly perpetrated by teens and young adults. The United States is filled with violent teenage criminals who would happily prey on others. I could give thousands of examples.
I wholly agree with your sentiments but also think your ideas for solutions are naive.
The only way you could possibly implement this without running afoul of serious Constitutional problems would be to somehow drastically expand the Selective Service Act to military service (plus the vague alternatives you offer). And that's only because "national security" seems to be enough justification to get around the Constitution.
Otherwise, you have to deal with that whole freedom of assembly thing, not to mention "false imprisonment" and other myriad theories the resistance would offer.
Public schooling was supposed to do this, mix everyone together. And maybe you could use the tax code to make private schooling very, very expensive?
Yes, we are fragmented and atomized, and it's getting worse, but I don't see any sort of "good idea" bubbling up and fixing anything. It's too complex and ultimately would require massive wealth re-distribution, which can only happen amid catastrophe.
Again, I'm on your side as far as recognizing the problem goes, so keep throwing ideas out there I guess?
P.S. No amount of funding of high school education could possibly get teenagers to read books. The problem is way more complicated than you seem to think it is.
Thanks for your thoughts!
This is an extreme example,but if a high iq high educated person from a stable family thinks most people think/act like them,you can imagine that to improve a poor person's life you need to give them 30k,thinking they will invest some if it on SandP500,get a bio-engineering deegree with a loan and escape the rat race,when in reality most low SES people would spend those money for an impressionable phone/car,fake hair-nails and 1st seats at nba,and treating their equally low SES friends free booze and alchohol.The two options available as a solution i see is either we need better elites at governing positions,and need to equip them with multiple perspectives,or we need more diversity in governance,where people of multiple different backgrounds are represented.Also you didn't specify how gender would play a role into the Mandate of National Service,and i hope you just forgot and weren't trying to dodge bullets:):)
I agree completely. Now in my sixties, I grew up when we had mandatory military service in Sweden. That was the first time I came into close contact with people of all walks of life, and it was - and still is - very beneficial. We lived together for 15 months, and formed bonds as well as saw other perspectives that made a huge impression.
thanks for sharing the Swedish intel...I was not aware of this...
Interesting data and insightful commentary, James. I would not that your analysis is quite consistent with the findings of Robert Putnam in Bowling Alone and his more recent work. In a recent interview, he commented that at the turn of the twentieth century, reformers recognized the growing alienation of youth and created many mentored youth groups such as the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and others in order to build a more cohesive society. That seems to have worked for a time.
I have long felt that the nation needs a public service requirement such as you advocate, exactly because of its potential for supporting social cohesion and the enrichment of lives through diverse interaction. Diversity is a core element in both biological and social evolution. I know from personal experience in the 1950s that the Boy Scouts became an asset for me the rest of my life. Such programs (not mandatory of course) have faded in more recent decades.
Unfortunately, the culture resists any 'mandate' that is mandatory--as evidenced by the irrational resistance to COVID vaccines. One important research topic might focus on how a paid mandatory youth public service program could be implemented.
I do think the "paid" component would get rid of some resistance...but not all...The key is offer substantial variance on the kinds of service (consumers love choice!). If you remove a mandate and keep the pay, though, it just becomes the CCC from the 1930s ...a form of federally subsidized employment...the elite will not need to participate and won't be forced into humbling themselves...You need high trust in the federal government to mandate anything and we are far from that...still, we badly need a national rite of passage...
I quite agree; the upper and upper-middle class must be required or elitism will prevail. And we are not even close to being there soon.
why would an LDS person complain about this? I'm a "retired Mormon" (Raise in the faith, seminary & BYU graduate, RM, and kicked out of my congregation for not being married by 30 years old so I have since left....and that's a whole other conversation.) I served my church for 18 months when I was 21 years old. Service is part of any church person's DNA. I think mandatory service as a gap year before college or a trade school would be a great idea!
only because this requirement would add to their Mission requirement...not replace it!
oh, they'd go for it. Mormons love to serve!
I would have disagreed with this years ago but given the chasm in class interactions and the race and gender hysteria that has ensued by people with too much time and comfort on their hands, mandatory service would assist class integration, discipline and hopefully mutual respect.
This is not possible considering the amount of violence in our society, particularly perpetrated by teens and young adults. The United States is filled with violent teenage criminals who would happily prey on others. I could give thousands of examples.
I wholly agree with your sentiments but also think your ideas for solutions are naive.
The only way you could possibly implement this without running afoul of serious Constitutional problems would be to somehow drastically expand the Selective Service Act to military service (plus the vague alternatives you offer). And that's only because "national security" seems to be enough justification to get around the Constitution.
Otherwise, you have to deal with that whole freedom of assembly thing, not to mention "false imprisonment" and other myriad theories the resistance would offer.
Public schooling was supposed to do this, mix everyone together. And maybe you could use the tax code to make private schooling very, very expensive?
Yes, we are fragmented and atomized, and it's getting worse, but I don't see any sort of "good idea" bubbling up and fixing anything. It's too complex and ultimately would require massive wealth re-distribution, which can only happen amid catastrophe.
Again, I'm on your side as far as recognizing the problem goes, so keep throwing ideas out there I guess?
P.S. No amount of funding of high school education could possibly get teenagers to read books. The problem is way more complicated than you seem to think it is.