I was one of three brothers (millennial to zillennial age range), but all three of us fell into mixed-gender social circles and had lots of female friends from early adolescence. I think these early cross-gender friendships might be even more common among Gen Z, which makes this an even more complicated set of variables to untangle.
I grew up with a sister who was six years older than I. My husband was born into a family with two sisters who were much older: about 10 and 12 years old. Both of these examples could be said to be generational differences, not just gender. My husband also claims that he was surrounded by women always making sure his behavior was correct. Two much older sisters, a mother and her sister, and two grandmothers. And then there were the housekeeper/au pairs for him. The stories about this situaiton are hilarious. Bless him, though, after all the frogs I've kissed over my dating life, I finally found my prince. Possibly the most compatible partner I could've found. Because I didn't have brothers and lived in a religious environment where boys and girls were separated in classes at age 12, learning about boys was impossible. They were strange creatures that changed from being my childhood buddies (I was a tomboy) to scary, domineering ogres.
No idea...incels are still a small tribe and it might be hard to prove the correlation statistically...certainly no sister plus exposure to Andrew Tate is not helping any...
Just found this great post courtesy Ruth Gaskovski - thank you for the very interesting work! I wrote this piece today at the Federalist on similar lines and it contains a Camille Paglia/Jordan Peterson discussion on precisely this topic, you might get a kick out of it:
I have often wondered about that myself, but came to the opposite conclusion.
I grew up in a very small, egalitarian family, with just one sister, no brothers, and was a tomboy. There were only boys to play with in the neighbourhood until I went to school.
I have always thought that that is why I never easily accepted male dominance and was an early feminist. Unlike many girls with brothers, I was not socialized to accept that the needs of the males come first and I am secondary.
I had a “boyfriend“ at age 5 or six, we were close friends who played boys’ games together, and we planned to marry when we grew up. Adults found that so cute.
My first “feminist“ act was when a new boy arrived on the scene, and wanted to play with my “boyfriend“, and insisted that as a girl I could not participate, except as a nurse on the sidelines, waiting to take care of them if they got hurt. My boyfriend went along with that, and that was the end of the friendship. I considered that a betrayal and never talked to him again. I was very hurt.
I also wonder about how prevalent it was in farms to have boys and girls share chores, weren’t those chores, pretty gender, segregated, with girls helping their mothers with housework in the home while boys helped their fathers in the barn, and in outside work?
I also wonder about the influence of extended families which were much more prevalent than, with lots of socializing with cousins.
I never had cousins, male or female, to socialize with, but most people I know did.
Just realized it is not the opposite conclusion, but a different one. Girls growing up with brothers often learn to defer to males, no doubt that makes life easier for them down the road.
interesting. I wonder if the neighborhood boys simply became your fictive brothers…? you certainly got plenty of platonic interaction time not a lot of people do.
Not sure if it was “platonic“, on my side it was often romantic, although not sexual.
At age 4, I had a really bad crush on one boy, a very confident one, who wasn’t interested, while another boy had a crush on me, and I wasn’t interested in him, he was whiny and cloying. A very typical female reaction I think, and present very early on.
And I certainly considered that “boyfriend“ just that, and not just a brother-like friend. I considered him a “soulmate“, and so was crushed when he preferred another boy to me.
I have always wondered why psychologists and social scientists have never seemed to explore those early emotional relationships in children as very deep and meaningful. They only ever seem to look at them in terms of “popularity and social networks.
I'm eldest of nine. The other eight were all boys. I had to learn "girl speak" in the college dorm, and still feel more at ease around men in some ways. Having a sibling the same gender as you is helpful too.
Very interesting - I grew up as the only girl with two brothers. My dad was the stay at home parent and my mom worked. I always wondered how exactly this affected my psychology. I think I had some very real blind spots when it came to making female friends and interacting with other women in general. When I graduated high school I mived to the nearest big city and I was rooming with three other girls who were sisters and had no brother. It was excruciatingly awkward for me. I found them to be so emotional and thought they were a bit shallow though really I'm sure they were nice girls and we could've gotten along if I'd understood how to get along with them a bit better.
thanks for sharing your story...I think you're pointing possibly to a new kind of modern social work where the stakes may seem lower than say - child abuse intervention- but aren't necessarily low stakes at all...cross-gender socialization is more common than ever in a society like ours. Ironically.
Loved this article! I have learned so much from my 3 older brothers (and 3 older sisters) and have always been grateful for the insights into men they taught me. I married a man with just one brother and can attest that he was clueless 🤣. Now we have two girls and two boys and I tell them all the time that their siblings will be their best friends.
Very interesting. I'll be looking for your book being published.
My wife and I have often thought about a related lack of socialization children now get, around interacting with different ages. In school, they are relegated to a single age cohort. But it is similar with families: as they've shrunk, children will likely have a small range of siblings (plus mothers seem to be getting all their child-bearing done in a few years, to more quickly get back to work). I think there are similar deterimental affects: young adults can't interact with older or younger people; they don't know how to hold babies or interact with little children; they don't know what old people can and can't do, or need help with.
It's another case of individualism, and another case of our highly intellectualized society neglecting lived experience. It's not sufficient to know that other ages of people exist. You have to actually experience interacting with them too!
Brilliant James. I am pre-ordering your book next. :)
much appreciated!
This was a great article, very informative and thought provoking. I had never thought about this particular issue.
My experience with two brothers, six and eight years younger, was good preparation for being a father.
My wife and I have three kids, Lauren 35, Andrew, 33 and Michael 30.
We were blessed to have Lauren as a caring older daughter. She has always looked out for her younger brothers.
robertsdavidn.substack.com/about
Thanks David!
I was one of three brothers (millennial to zillennial age range), but all three of us fell into mixed-gender social circles and had lots of female friends from early adolescence. I think these early cross-gender friendships might be even more common among Gen Z, which makes this an even more complicated set of variables to untangle.
co-ed recreation works...and it may be more common among younger folks today...not sure...it was not in my era.
I grew up with a sister who was six years older than I. My husband was born into a family with two sisters who were much older: about 10 and 12 years old. Both of these examples could be said to be generational differences, not just gender. My husband also claims that he was surrounded by women always making sure his behavior was correct. Two much older sisters, a mother and her sister, and two grandmothers. And then there were the housekeeper/au pairs for him. The stories about this situaiton are hilarious. Bless him, though, after all the frogs I've kissed over my dating life, I finally found my prince. Possibly the most compatible partner I could've found. Because I didn't have brothers and lived in a religious environment where boys and girls were separated in classes at age 12, learning about boys was impossible. They were strange creatures that changed from being my childhood buddies (I was a tomboy) to scary, domineering ogres.
Thanks for sharing your story!
Are you aware if any studies have been done to assess whether men without sisters are statistically more likely to becone incels?
No idea...incels are still a small tribe and it might be hard to prove the correlation statistically...certainly no sister plus exposure to Andrew Tate is not helping any...
Fabulous article! Can’t wait for the book. I’ve never thought about siblings in this way.
Thanks Krista!
So insightful!
Thanks for reading...
Just found this great post courtesy Ruth Gaskovski - thank you for the very interesting work! I wrote this piece today at the Federalist on similar lines and it contains a Camille Paglia/Jordan Peterson discussion on precisely this topic, you might get a kick out of it:
https://gaty.substack.com/p/are-we-allowed-to-talk-about-the
I have often wondered about that myself, but came to the opposite conclusion.
I grew up in a very small, egalitarian family, with just one sister, no brothers, and was a tomboy. There were only boys to play with in the neighbourhood until I went to school.
I have always thought that that is why I never easily accepted male dominance and was an early feminist. Unlike many girls with brothers, I was not socialized to accept that the needs of the males come first and I am secondary.
I had a “boyfriend“ at age 5 or six, we were close friends who played boys’ games together, and we planned to marry when we grew up. Adults found that so cute.
My first “feminist“ act was when a new boy arrived on the scene, and wanted to play with my “boyfriend“, and insisted that as a girl I could not participate, except as a nurse on the sidelines, waiting to take care of them if they got hurt. My boyfriend went along with that, and that was the end of the friendship. I considered that a betrayal and never talked to him again. I was very hurt.
I also wonder about how prevalent it was in farms to have boys and girls share chores, weren’t those chores, pretty gender, segregated, with girls helping their mothers with housework in the home while boys helped their fathers in the barn, and in outside work?
I also wonder about the influence of extended families which were much more prevalent than, with lots of socializing with cousins.
I never had cousins, male or female, to socialize with, but most people I know did.
Just some thoughts.
Oops, forgot to mention I am a boomer female.
Just realized it is not the opposite conclusion, but a different one. Girls growing up with brothers often learn to defer to males, no doubt that makes life easier for them down the road.
interesting. I wonder if the neighborhood boys simply became your fictive brothers…? you certainly got plenty of platonic interaction time not a lot of people do.
Not sure if it was “platonic“, on my side it was often romantic, although not sexual.
At age 4, I had a really bad crush on one boy, a very confident one, who wasn’t interested, while another boy had a crush on me, and I wasn’t interested in him, he was whiny and cloying. A very typical female reaction I think, and present very early on.
And I certainly considered that “boyfriend“ just that, and not just a brother-like friend. I considered him a “soulmate“, and so was crushed when he preferred another boy to me.
I have always wondered why psychologists and social scientists have never seemed to explore those early emotional relationships in children as very deep and meaningful. They only ever seem to look at them in terms of “popularity and social networks.
But that may be a girl thing…😊
Late to the party...
I'm eldest of nine. The other eight were all boys. I had to learn "girl speak" in the college dorm, and still feel more at ease around men in some ways. Having a sibling the same gender as you is helpful too.
Wow…your family is ante-bellum huge!
Very interesting - I grew up as the only girl with two brothers. My dad was the stay at home parent and my mom worked. I always wondered how exactly this affected my psychology. I think I had some very real blind spots when it came to making female friends and interacting with other women in general. When I graduated high school I mived to the nearest big city and I was rooming with three other girls who were sisters and had no brother. It was excruciatingly awkward for me. I found them to be so emotional and thought they were a bit shallow though really I'm sure they were nice girls and we could've gotten along if I'd understood how to get along with them a bit better.
thanks for sharing your story...I think you're pointing possibly to a new kind of modern social work where the stakes may seem lower than say - child abuse intervention- but aren't necessarily low stakes at all...cross-gender socialization is more common than ever in a society like ours. Ironically.
Loved this article! I have learned so much from my 3 older brothers (and 3 older sisters) and have always been grateful for the insights into men they taught me. I married a man with just one brother and can attest that he was clueless 🤣. Now we have two girls and two boys and I tell them all the time that their siblings will be their best friends.
great story! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Very interesting. I'll be looking for your book being published.
My wife and I have often thought about a related lack of socialization children now get, around interacting with different ages. In school, they are relegated to a single age cohort. But it is similar with families: as they've shrunk, children will likely have a small range of siblings (plus mothers seem to be getting all their child-bearing done in a few years, to more quickly get back to work). I think there are similar deterimental affects: young adults can't interact with older or younger people; they don't know how to hold babies or interact with little children; they don't know what old people can and can't do, or need help with.
It's another case of individualism, and another case of our highly intellectualized society neglecting lived experience. It's not sufficient to know that other ages of people exist. You have to actually experience interacting with them too!
Thanks for your thoughts…the book is out now…https://a.co/d/jhOXnCa
I love this